'No agreement' that Welsh Government should fund valleys rail electrification

'No agreement' that Welsh Government should fund valleys rail electrification

'No agreement' that Welsh Government should fund valleys rail electrification

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THE row over rail electrification of the Valley lines – and whether or not the Welsh Government will need to pay for some of it – continued to rumble on in the Senedd yesterday.

The first minister Carwyn Jones said there was no agreement at any time that the Welsh Government should fund the project, which includes electrifying the line to Ebbw Vale.

On Monday Mr Jones told journalists that he was concerned that the UK Government’s commitment on funding electrification had drifted.

But David Jones, secretary of state for Wales, said in response that he was "shocked" at the suggestion that the UK Government would pay for the entire cost of the project and said letters showed a deal had been done between Cardiff and Westminster.

First minister Carwyn Jones told the Assembly that there had been “no agreement at any time that the Welsh Government should fund any of the electrification."

He said he had been "careful to emphasise that what I wanted was clarification which I’ve not yet had. I had a letter from the prime minister on Friday that doesn’t clarify the issue.

“The response from the secretary of state bordered on the hysterical considering the comment I had made," he argued.

The first minister added that the issue wasn’t a devolved matter: “Why on earth would the Welsh Government look to pay for something that isn’t devolved?”

Comments (11)

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11:13am Wed 19 Mar 14

Bobevans says...

It was always down to the Assembly to fund the electrification of the valets lines. Westminster was to electrify the GWR line including any sections shared by the valleys lines but none of the other lines
It was always down to the Assembly to fund the electrification of the valets lines. Westminster was to electrify the GWR line including any sections shared by the valleys lines but none of the other lines Bobevans
  • Score: 2

11:30am Wed 19 Mar 14

Severn40 says...

I thought the funding was pretty clear - the infrastructure costs for the Valley Lines were to be paid through increased access charges after the works were complete. The funding is coming from Westminster anyway - the Welsh Government gets a block grant from the Department for Transport to pay for the costs of supporting the Welsh rail system. I suspect Carwhinge Jones is raising the issue to deflect growing criticism and scrutiny of his administration.
I thought the funding was pretty clear - the infrastructure costs for the Valley Lines were to be paid through increased access charges after the works were complete. The funding is coming from Westminster anyway - the Welsh Government gets a block grant from the Department for Transport to pay for the costs of supporting the Welsh rail system. I suspect Carwhinge Jones is raising the issue to deflect growing criticism and scrutiny of his administration. Severn40
  • Score: 5

3:10pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Bobevans says...

Severn40 wrote:
I thought the funding was pretty clear - the infrastructure costs for the Valley Lines were to be paid through increased access charges after the works were complete. The funding is coming from Westminster anyway - the Welsh Government gets a block grant from the Department for Transport to pay for the costs of supporting the Welsh rail system. I suspect Carwhinge Jones is raising the issue to deflect growing criticism and scrutiny of his administration.
Yes you are correct. Carwyn seemed to think Westminster was funding it directly
[quote][p][bold]Severn40[/bold] wrote: I thought the funding was pretty clear - the infrastructure costs for the Valley Lines were to be paid through increased access charges after the works were complete. The funding is coming from Westminster anyway - the Welsh Government gets a block grant from the Department for Transport to pay for the costs of supporting the Welsh rail system. I suspect Carwhinge Jones is raising the issue to deflect growing criticism and scrutiny of his administration.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct. Carwyn seemed to think Westminster was funding it directly Bobevans
  • Score: -2

3:59pm Wed 19 Mar 14

whatintheworld says...

can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification?

if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?
can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely? whatintheworld
  • Score: 1

4:13pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Bobevans says...

whatintheworld wrote:
can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification?

if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?
The franchising is not devolved but the rest is
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?[/p][/quote]The franchising is not devolved but the rest is Bobevans
  • Score: -2

4:29pm Wed 19 Mar 14

whatintheworld says...

Bobevans wrote:
whatintheworld wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?
The franchising is not devolved but the rest is
ok. so franchising is choosing which company will run the trains right? fine we'll choose. but maintaining and upgrading the actual infrastructure - the tracks - is not devolved. so why are we paying for it?

id like to point out that we in wales are funding crossrail 1 and 2 in london, through general taxation. why cant the same be done for us in wales?
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?[/p][/quote]The franchising is not devolved but the rest is[/p][/quote]ok. so franchising is choosing which company will run the trains right? fine we'll choose. but maintaining and upgrading the actual infrastructure - the tracks - is not devolved. so why are we paying for it? id like to point out that we in wales are funding crossrail 1 and 2 in london, through general taxation. why cant the same be done for us in wales? whatintheworld
  • Score: 2

4:52pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gingertom says...

Severn40 carwhinge jones you got that spot on. The arrogance of the man beggars belief. This picking and choosing on independence is wearing thin. He had 52 million to buy an airport but the ebbw vale line can go and whistle by the looks of it.
Severn40 carwhinge jones you got that spot on. The arrogance of the man beggars belief. This picking and choosing on independence is wearing thin. He had 52 million to buy an airport but the ebbw vale line can go and whistle by the looks of it. gingertom
  • Score: -1

6:05pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Bobevans says...

whatintheworld wrote:
Bobevans wrote:
whatintheworld wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?
The franchising is not devolved but the rest is
ok. so franchising is choosing which company will run the trains right? fine we'll choose. but maintaining and upgrading the actual infrastructure - the tracks - is not devolved. so why are we paying for it?

id like to point out that we in wales are funding crossrail 1 and 2 in london, through general taxation. why cant the same be done for us in wales?
Rail Infrastructure is devolved
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?[/p][/quote]The franchising is not devolved but the rest is[/p][/quote]ok. so franchising is choosing which company will run the trains right? fine we'll choose. but maintaining and upgrading the actual infrastructure - the tracks - is not devolved. so why are we paying for it? id like to point out that we in wales are funding crossrail 1 and 2 in london, through general taxation. why cant the same be done for us in wales?[/p][/quote]Rail Infrastructure is devolved Bobevans
  • Score: -2

12:08pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Lord coed melyn says...

Sorry to tell you we do not control anything to do with railways at the moment.
We may do if the if we take up the opportunity that what the welsh assembly. Has been looking into the best way to run railways in wales?
Rail in wales in run by the Department of transport, after the Denatiolion.
Before that it was the British rail board (operations)Thats rail and track) ALL LAND IN THE UK.(,used by the rail industry) TRACKS, YARDS, BRIDGES,DOCKS,CANALS
, They were controlled british rail property board. Now U.K Treasury.SO SORRY TO SAY MR JONES IS CORRECT ON THIS POINT. He must not invest in something he cannot own at the moment. and has no control over. He must let the parties that own it invest in it ? ie. U.K GOVERNMENT . THE PARTY THAT CONTROL THE TRACK INVEST IN IT
THE THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT.
He can ask if they don't want to get out of transport in wales and get a good deal for the land and the track, docks, canals, he seems to be a bit of a shark at deals .Remember i think he bought an airport. Hes learning ?
Sorry to tell you we do not control anything to do with railways at the moment. We may do if the if we take up the opportunity that what the welsh assembly. Has been looking into the best way to run railways in wales? Rail in wales in run by the Department of transport, after the Denatiolion. Before that it was the British rail board (operations)Thats rail and track) ALL LAND IN THE UK.(,used by the rail industry) TRACKS, YARDS, BRIDGES,DOCKS,CANALS , They were controlled british rail property board. Now U.K Treasury.SO SORRY TO SAY MR JONES IS CORRECT ON THIS POINT. He must not invest in something he cannot own at the moment. and has no control over. He must let the parties that own it invest in it ? ie. U.K GOVERNMENT . THE PARTY THAT CONTROL THE TRACK INVEST IN IT THE THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT. He can ask if they don't want to get out of transport in wales and get a good deal for the land and the track, docks, canals, he seems to be a bit of a shark at deals .Remember i think he bought an airport. Hes learning ? Lord coed melyn
  • Score: 2

2:57pm Thu 20 Mar 14

whatintheworld says...

Bobevans wrote:
whatintheworld wrote:
Bobevans wrote:
whatintheworld wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?
The franchising is not devolved but the rest is
ok. so franchising is choosing which company will run the trains right? fine we'll choose. but maintaining and upgrading the actual infrastructure - the tracks - is not devolved. so why are we paying for it? id like to point out that we in wales are funding crossrail 1 and 2 in london, through general taxation. why cant the same be done for us in wales?
Rail Infrastructure is devolved
sorry Bob. clearly i cant read!
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: can someone point me to where its said that WG were always going to pay for electrification? if its not a devolved matter, its central gov.'s problem - surely?[/p][/quote]The franchising is not devolved but the rest is[/p][/quote]ok. so franchising is choosing which company will run the trains right? fine we'll choose. but maintaining and upgrading the actual infrastructure - the tracks - is not devolved. so why are we paying for it? id like to point out that we in wales are funding crossrail 1 and 2 in london, through general taxation. why cant the same be done for us in wales?[/p][/quote]Rail Infrastructure is devolved[/p][/quote]sorry Bob. clearly i cant read! whatintheworld
  • Score: -1

9:28pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Lord coed melyn says...

The new station at pye corner, Rogerstone.
The site was bought out of a grant given by european grant for regeneration.
U.k Treasury . It was then passed on to the welsh assembly.
They looked for a possible sites to spend the grant on and sweta came up with pye corner rogerstone site. But it was owned by railtrack ?
Railtrack is owned by the department of transport. Newport city council asked the welsh government. If they can buy it THEY SAID IS THAT THE BEST YOU HAVE GOT ?
Newport take advice of sewta and say yes. But on the board of sewta is railtrack and all the companies that have contracts on rail and make money out of contractual arrangements. and it was rushed in to get the money otherwise the treasury was going to withdraw the grant. The deal was done and so were the welsh people the and the treasury got the grant back by selling something to Newport and wales that we already own in being part of the U.K?
WELL I THINK MR JAMES HAS CAUGHT? ON TO WE HAVE LEARNT READ THE SMALL PRINT BEFORE YOU SIGN.

CAMPAIGN FOR BETTER TRANSPORT u.k
S.W.I.T.E.S
The new station at pye corner, Rogerstone. The site was bought out of a grant given by european grant for regeneration. U.k Treasury . It was then passed on to the welsh assembly. They looked for a possible sites to spend the grant on and sweta came up with pye corner rogerstone site. But it was owned by railtrack ? Railtrack is owned by the department of transport. Newport city council asked the welsh government. If they can buy it THEY SAID IS THAT THE BEST YOU HAVE GOT ? Newport take advice of sewta and say yes. But on the board of sewta is railtrack and all the companies that have contracts on rail and make money out of contractual arrangements. and it was rushed in to get the money otherwise the treasury was going to withdraw the grant. The deal was done and so were the welsh people the and the treasury got the grant back by selling something to Newport and wales that we already own in being part of the U.K? WELL I THINK MR JAMES HAS CAUGHT? ON TO WE HAVE LEARNT READ THE SMALL PRINT BEFORE YOU SIGN. CAMPAIGN FOR BETTER TRANSPORT u.k S.W.I.T.E.S Lord coed melyn
  • Score: 1

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