Review says most of Cwmcarn asbestos school can re-open (From Campaign Series)

This whole issue of asbestos (or not) at Cwmcarn School has degenerated into a total farce and Caerphilly council and the governing body of the school who are responsible for its maintenance and safety should take a serious look at themselves. The disruption to the pupils education and the huge cost to council taxpayers that have been incured in this whole sad farce is shameful and has shown a total lack of leadership and direction.
It is now clear from this latest report that the cost of transport and the refurbishing of the redundaent school in Ebbw Vale were totally unecessary and a knee jerk reaction by Caerphilly council.
Let's hope that the pupils can get back to some sort of normality ASAP.

I agree completely with the comment above by Cwmderi. Now let's get the students back into the school and find out who was responsible for this waste of public money and enormous stress to pupils and their families. Someone at Caerphilly CBC should be ashamed of themselves and our local councillors have hardly covered themselves in glory with their invisibility.

I totally agree ! What is wrong with Caerphilly Council ? Why does it feel the need to waste so much public money on whim ?? I bet they forgo the investigation that they should be holding ...... who and why decided to prolong this farce !

I agree with all the comments above but I bet that Ccbc will twist the facts to suit their agenda. Most of the councillors contacted by parents have been, at best, unhelpful and at worst, downright untruthful and evasive. The highest authority in this country, the HSE performed an asbestos survey which showed the school was safe but Ccbc decided that as it didn't agree with the results from the companytthey had cho n tsen then Eanother survey was required. This has confirmed the HSE report. What will Ccbc do next I wonder? Just give us the keys to the school and go back to your jobs of cleaning up dog mess.

I, for one, am glad that the council are looking out for my child. I'm certainly not prepared to send my child back to school based on a visual report and 'desk top' survey. Even Ensafe state that they found 14 positive samples and that is 14 too many for me! With holes in walls and ceilings I am still very worried!

With respect to Cwmderi (above) this ‘farce’ is not of the making of the school or its governing body but of CCBC. But for the insistence of the governing body that the HSE investigate and an independent survey take place, CCBC were willing to demolish the entire school and deprive our children of the excellent education CHS provides, on the basis of the now discredited Santia report.

Also, CCBC has been very quick to get their propaganda out to parents and press whilst withholding information that does not support their stance. CCBC caused immense anxiety by publishing a report that suggested airborne asbestos levels at ten times the legal limits, it was splashed all over the media, and health advice clinics were immediately organized for parents, pupils and staff – justifiable actions indeed given the information they had to hand at the time. However, several weeks after the HSL report it was made available to them they have yet to publish it, even though it demonstrates the Santia report to be incompetent both in method, result and conclusion. To make matters worse, they even try to call into question the results of the HSL investigation – a report commissioned by the HSE, the government watchdog with ultimate responsibility for these matters.

We must presume that the Santia report was not manipulated to fit a political agenda, but it does appear that it has been taken up by CCBC to such an end. To this parent the manner in which this whole episode has been dragged out looks very much like an attempt to wear down our confidence in the school and to soften our resolve, in the hope that we will accept closure. Well we will not. Nor will further unjustifiable delay be forgotten.

I've been told that the HSE inspector has emailed a parent to state the following

Following on from my email of the 13th February I have set out below some answers to your original email. Since your original email, the Health and Safety Laboratory report has been completed and published by the school Governors. The HSL report provides some response to the first and second questions you ask and I will try to summarise below;
1) Was the Santia report and recommendations accurate and well thought out or were they knee jerk and ill informed on any level?
There is asbestos debris within ceiling voids in Block A of the school and unsealed and damaged asbestos insulating boards in the heater cabinets in some of the classrooms. Santia were commissioned to undertake the review of asbestos at the school by Caerphilly County Borough Council as part of their arrangements to properly manage asbestos at the school.
Santia used the HSE recognised air sampling methodolgy to collect the samples and to count fibres by a method called Phase Contrast Microscopy (PCM). PCM analysis can not differentiate between asbestos fibres and counts all fibres with a certain length/width ration. Other sources of fibres which could be counted by this method include, Machine made mineral fibre (MMMF), plasterboard and school chalk.
Their report compares these results with a target level quoted in the "Asbestos is Schools" document of 0.0005 f/ml. The figure of 0.0005 f/ml is based on only asbestos fibres and can not be legitimately compared to the results from PCM analysis which counts all fibres present.
The air borne sampling results, in our opinion, do not provide evidence of a significant risk of transmission of asbestos fibres into the classrooms
The method by which the air samples were analysed by HSL, Transmitting Electron Microscopy (TEM), meant that it was posisble to positively identify asbestos fibres. The HSL report found that there was no evidence for quantifiable transfer of asbestos fibres from the ceiling void or the heater cabinets into the classrooms. This is supports our original opinion that there is no evidence of any significant transmission of asbestos fibres from the ceiling voids into the classroom
2) What is the current condition of Cwmbran HS and is it fit for reoccupation or are the works remedial or more catastrophic?
Based on the previous asbestos surveys HSE provided the Governors with advice on the measures, related to management of asbestos, which need to be considered before the school can be reoccupied. Any decision whether to reopen the school does not rest with HSE - this is a matter for the school governors and Caerphilly County Borough Council.
HSE does not have comprehensive information on the current condition of the school. Clearly the school has been unoccupied for a period of time over which the weather has been bad. Therefore there may be work which needs to be done to allow reoccupation of the school. I understand that the school governors and Caerphilly County Borough Council have been working together to agree a way forward.
3) Asbsestos management at Cwmcarn High School
HSE has inspected the school premises and found that the system of managing asbestos does not give any immediate cause for concern with no enforcement action required at this time.

I was one of many parents who attended the public meeting with the Director Of Education . She said the school was closed due to the risk of Airborne Asbestos and nothing could be done until the report from the HSE ( who have the powers to arrest and prosecute for mismanagement of Asbestos) was received.

So we've had that report - there's going to be no arrests or prosecution.

There is still asbestos in the school but there is asbestos in 30 schools in CCBC and several thousand in Wales. So why aren't these schools all closed? Ccbc have now moved the goalposts.

Surely if asbestos in any shape, form or condition is a risk however small all these schools should be closed without notice.

Why aren't they ? Probably because that would be a complete utter and unworkable nightmare.?

Why can't the parts of the school without asbestos be opened- the science block, the language block and the performing arts block not to mention the leisure centre.

WHY ?

People need answers.

jd1234 wrote:
I, for one, am glad that the council are looking out for my child. I'm certainly not prepared to send my child back to school based on a visual report and 'desk top' survey. Even Ensafe state that they found 14 positive samples and that is 14 too many for me! With holes in walls and ceilings I am still very worried!

As parents we ALL have the welfare of our children at the top of our agenda. The fact is that the HSL report, commissioned by the highest health and safety authority in the country, has stated that, whilst work must be done, the school is safe. What other reassurance can we expect? It seems clear to me that the council has other things on their agenda beyond the health of the school's pupils and staff.

To jd1234 If your child is in a comp then good luck findng an asbestos free school. The only 2 I could think of are the 2 PFI schools Lewis Boys and Cwm Rhymney so if your children aren't in Welsh medium or boys living in Ystrad - tough.

JWG1967 wrote:
I was one of many parents who attended the public meeting with the Director Of Education . She said the school was closed due to the risk of Airborne Asbestos and nothing could be done until the report from the HSE ( who have the powers to arrest and prosecute for mismanagement of Asbestos) was received.

So we've had that report - there's going to be no arrests or prosecution.

There is still asbestos in the school but there is asbestos in 30 schools in CCBC and several thousand in Wales. So why aren't these schools all closed? Ccbc have now moved the goalposts.

Surely if asbestos in any shape, form or condition is a risk however small all these schools should be closed without notice.

Why aren't they ? Probably because that would be a complete utter and unworkable nightmare.?

Why can't the parts of the school without asbestos be opened- the science block, the language block and the performing arts block not to mention the leisure centre.

WHY ?

People need answers.

Perhaps CCBC could tell us if Santia has carried out surveys in any other schools in the county using identical methods and analysis, and what their recommendations have been. Or is it only CHS that has been singled out for 'special attention'?

Forgive me if I’ve got this wrong, but there have been some discussions about closing Cwmcarn school & combining it with Risca Comp. However, it could be said that on doing the recommendations in the Ensafe report, thus containing the asbestos in Block A & sealing it off, it would make Cwmcarn school premises safer that Risca school premises. This is because 3 detailed asbestos reports have been done and no one really knows what state Risca school is in at present nor the extent of the future problems it is going to have. How long will it be before Risca school starts "leaking" asbestos over the kids and eventually the same problem will happen there. At what point will Risca school will have to be evacuated? If its just part of the school in Cwmcarn surely that bit could come down and be rebuilt, the half empty Risca school, could be closed at a later date & pupils transferred to a larger & better school on the Cwmcarn site, which has far more accessible than Risca comp, by bus etc for the whole of the Caerphilly area. Also the head of an achieving school could be kept, rather than the head of a failing Risca school. The cost of removing the asbestos in Risca school could then be passed onto who ever buys the site.

There are some highly valid observations made above which appear to support the assertion that CCBC have not been open, honest and transparent in their handling of this knee-jerk situation.

The decision by CCBC to support the recommendations of the Santia report to immediately close the School without obtaining corroborative evidence/further opinion appears to be a major error of professional judgement.

CCBC's decision to publish the Santia (external consultants) report on its website, followed by the continued failure to publish the HSL report on its site, is at best unprofessional and at worst suspicious in its dereliction of its duty to be open, honest and transparent with its constituents (council tax payers).

In its letter to parents dated 14/2/13, CCBC dispute the provenance of the Ensafe report and fail to publish this survey on its website saying "Ensafe Report ..... has not been released to date as the Council has concerns about its accuracy."

In all cases the Council appear to be acting suspiciously by their actions above, reinforced by the widely noted reticence of the Cabinet to engage to date in positive dialogue to deal in an open, honest and transparent manner with the facts and overwhelming evidence produced by independent bodies including the undoubtable expertise of the HSE/HSL,

I am disturbed as a parent and concerned as a council taxpayer why CCBC appear to be myopic in their dubious and poorly advised support of a poorly founded report by Santia that has been "criticised" by the HSL for the poor sampling techniques and the fundamental error that Santia chose to recommend school closure on the basis of recording all fibres captured on their filters WITHOUT ELIMINATING THOSE FIBRES (the vast majority) THAT WERE NOT ASBESTOS!! Santia chose to report all fibres as if they were all asbestos, signed off by a Director who would have known full well the seriousness of the negative ramifications their recommendations would cause.

After acting on the Santia report (recommendation to close the School), ignoring the HSL report (which disputes Santia's interpretation of its own results), and dismissing the Ensafe report (Recommendation to seal and and manage Block A and re-open rest (majority) of school, whilst managing Block A for eventual use), CCBC are now committing further scarce taxpayers' money and incurring further delay in decision-making by employing an "independent" consultant to do a desk-based review of all the reports.

It should not take yet another highly paid consultant to tell us (another month or so down the tracks) what we already know from all the facts (all three reports) available to us concerned parents.

It seems very clear to me based on my own desk-based review of all three professional opinions that: the levels of airborne asbestos fibres are much lower than originally reported; are in-line or no higher than normal background levels; and that the pragmatic solution is to seal off Block A for further work, then re-open the majority balance of the School buildings for learning and re-commission and re-open Block A accompanied by a revised and up-to-date asbestos management plan, upon which the HSL has assessed previous iterations as being effective in form and effective in implementation.

I (and many others) would find it highly unusual (and questionable) if any other conclusion could possibly be reached based on the facts as published.

I sincerely hope and urge that senior officers and EVERY councillor in FULL Council take the opportunity like I have done to obtain, read and scrutinise all three reports to appraise themselves of all the facts, enabling them to form their own opinion based on the facts as presented (and nothing else) BEFORE assessing the findings of the forthcoming "independent expert's" desktop review.

Hopefully you will join me in seeing that there is a sensible, pragmatic and safe way for the school to re-open in the near future. The Council has committed £1.4m of its budget to fund transporting the learners to Ebbw Vale. Much better now to act on the overwhelming evidence to re-open the school and apply the funding to more permanent and sustainable positive action by re-opening the school, re-commissioning Block A and investing the balance in bringing the long-term cash starved maintenance programme right up-to-date. Sounds like a plan worthy of any open, honest, transparent and caring Council. Here's an ideal opportunity to regain some much needed credibility in the eyes of voters (and others) who are judging CCBC on its actions in recent months.
Please take it and do the right thing for our society! Don't play with our children's education. CCBC has pledged to Welsh Government Ministers to protect Education funding. Education is a top priority for Wales, Welsh Govt and Mr Andrews. It is a priority for us a citizens and we recognise it as a path to betterment of ourselves and society. I'd be surprised if CCBC in its Corporate Strategy didn't have improved Education Attainment as one of its top three Priorities - in fact impossible!

Therefore, to delay any longer the sustainable education of learners by and at Cwmcarn High School fundamentally puts at risk the attainment of this priority in the short term (CHS is the highest achieving school in Caerphilly Borough in absolute terms: source: CCBC) and risks the emotional well-being and economic success of our local society on a more permanent basis. Any outcome other than keeping CHS as an intact unit, with a local permanent home is a sub-optimal and poor one and a no-brainer, where numerous experts have recommended that the school buildings are safe to re-occupy where continued proactive asbestos management plans are in place and managed. Come on CCBC, if you truly believe and care about the Borough's Educational Priorities that you have signed up to your constituents and promised to Mr Andrews the Education Minister, you will do the right thing by safeguarding the permanent future of Cwmcarn High School as described above.

Thank you.