Another disaster for Wales and Howley as Samoa triumph at Millennium Stadium – Wales 19 Samoa 26 Match Report

9:47pm Friday 16th November 2012 in Sport Photograph of the Author By Iwan Davies

Another disaster for Wales and Howley as Samoa triumph at Millennium Stadium Another disaster for Wales and Howley as Samoa triumph at Millennium Stadium

ANOTHER black day for Welsh rugby saw the national side humiliated by their old nemesis Samoa who completely destroyed them at the Millennium Stadium.

Had the visitors’ outside half Tusiata Pise had his kicking boots on – he squandered 13 points – it would have been reflected on the scoreboard.

Their old tactic of roughing up Wales worked wonders but what made this victory so significant for them was that they not only beat Wales in the set piece, but murdered them.

Woeful Wales used to rely on their superiority up front to get the upper hand on Samoa in the tight but the Pacific Islanders have made enormous strides.

It was Wales’ fifth defeat in a row, raising serious questions about this coaching staff in head coach Warren Gatland’s absence after he decided to take the Lions job for next year.

And with the All Blacks in town next weekend - and the prospect of six losses out of six - the Welsh Rugby Union might consider installing a cricket scoreboard for the number of points World Cup champions New Zealand could score.

Wales had a nightmarish start, taking Samoa all of 64 seconds to score after full back Fa’atoina Autagavaia crossed in the corner after No 8 Taiasina Tuifu’a, who played against Cross Keys for Newcastle in the British & Irish Cup last month, tore through the home defence after a missed tackle by tighthead Aaron Jarvis.

Tusiata Pisi’s excellent conversion made it 7-0 and Wales would have been further behind after nine minutes had he slotted a kickable penalty which wasn’t so easy peasy for the outside half.

A Leigh Halfpenny penalty after 15 minutes opened Wales’ account but they were dealt a blow soon after when in-form hooker Richard Hibbard left the field with a shoulder injury, replaced by Ken Owens.

Wales struggled to impose any real authority on an evenly balanced contest but Halfpenny’s second penalty, kicked in the 29th minute, reduced Samoa’s lead to 7-6.

Tusiata Pisi should have cancelled that out just seconds later when Wales gave away a stupid penalty from the restart for blocking, but he missed an easy shot at goal.

And the Samoa fly half was the villain again when his telegraphed pass found its way into Wales centre Ashley Beck’s hands, the Ospreys man running 75 metres for an interception try the home side desperately needed.

Halfpenny’s conversion gave Wales a 13-7 lead after 33 minutes they scarcely deserved.

Lock Teofilo Paulo was lucky to stay on the field in the 37th minute when he smashed Dan Biggar with his shoulder at a ruck, the Ospreys fly half covered in blood as he was led from the field, replaced by Rhys Priestland. There wasn’t even a penalty given against the second row.

To rub salt in the wounds, Tusiata Pisi got his first penalty, on his third attempt, with the last play of the first half which ended 13-10.

Wales had struggled to play with much, if any shape, the lineouts a disaster once again and the scrum far from impressive.

Lock Ian Evans didn’t come back onto the field in the second half, so becoming the third Osprey to retire with an injury, and was replaced by former Newport Gwent Dragon Luke Charteris.

The writing seemed to be on the wall for Wales for they were behind again in the 45th minute when centre George Pisi scored a cute try after Ospreys scrum half Kahn Fotuali’i carved up the home defence.

Tusiata Pisi couldn’t convert his brother’s touchdown, his effort again sailing wide.

A monster penalty by Halfpenny restored Wales’ lead to 16-15 and they could have increased it had Priestland not criminally wasted a huge overlap, the fly half kicking the ball dead from over 50 metres to sum up his side’s attacking ineptitude.

Tusiata Pisi’s penalty nosed Samoa ahead in the 57th minute, Halfpenny missing an easy attempt just a matter of seconds later from the restart.

Openside flanker Maurie Fa’asavalu gave away a silly penalty for half-strangling Owens, Halfpenny making no mistake to edge Wales ahead 19-18.

Wales were getting beaten up all over the field, the scrum disintegrating under their posts for Tusiata Pisi to slot over a simple three points for a 21-19 lead.

Scrum half Mike Phillips was guilty of butchering a great chance of a Wales try when he chose to ignore a huge overlap from a ruck on the Samoa line.

Replacement Johnny Leota, no relation of Goodfella’s Ray I think, got Samoa’s third try after Halfpenny failed to gather a kick ahead.

Wales: L Halfpenny, A Cuthbert, A Beck, J Roberts, G North, D Biggar (R Priestland 37) M Phillips, P James (G Jenkins 61), R Hibbard (K Owens 17), A Jarvis (S Andrews 77), B Davies, I Evans (L Charteris 40), R Jones (capt) (Sam Warburton 71), J Tipuric, T Faletau.

Replacements: T Knoyle, S Williams Wales scorers: Try – Ashley Beck, Conversion – Leigh Halfpenny, Pens – L Halfpenny (4) Samoa: F Autagavaia, P Perez, G Pisi, P Williams, D Lemi (capt), T Pisi, K Fotuali’i, S Taulafo, O Avei, C Johnston, D Leo, T Paulo, O Treviranus, M Fa’asavalu, T Tuifua.

Replacements: T Paulo, V Afatia, J Johnston, I Tekori, T Foma’i, J Su’a, J Leota, R Lilomaiava.

Samoa scorers: Tries – Fa’atoina Autagavaia, George Pisi, Johnny Leota, Conversions – Tusiata Pisi, Penalties – T Pisi (3)

Referee: Pascal Gauzere (France)

Attendance: 44,329

Argus star man: Kahn Fotuali’i

Comments(81)

Nptsportsfan says...
10:04pm Fri 16 Nov 12

let the domestic abuse begin!

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Euwan Usami says...
10:14pm Fri 16 Nov 12

I know it's about WRU income at the end of the day but have some pride in the jersey. Half of them can't be arsed to even sing the anthem. If you don't want to play then don't bother. Stop wasting everybody's time. Embarrassing.

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SWBorderer says...
10:25pm Fri 16 Nov 12

Have we only got Plan A in the coaching manual, we tried exactly the same tactics as we played against Argentina, i.e. battering ram or kick, It really was a pathetic display.

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Dai the Milk says...
10:35pm Fri 16 Nov 12

Sort out the 'Regional' game or it's going to get much, much worse. This is not just a coaching issue.

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phantom14 says...
11:42pm Fri 16 Nov 12

agree with above , cant put all eggs in one basket!!

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DOWNTHEPIT says...
2:22am Sat 17 Nov 12

TOTAL FARSE...GET MCBRIDE OUT .GET SOMEONE IN LIKE GRAHAM PRICE TO SORT THE SCRUM OUT. + GARETH LLEWELLYN TO SORT THE LINEOUT.THERES NO WEIGHT COMING FROM THE BACK ROW IN THE SCRUM FALETAU MIGHT AS WELL PLAY SCRUM HALF.GET HOOK IN AT O/HALF

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the dork says...
9:37am Sat 17 Nov 12

Only half full stadium.does'nt Lewis know about marketing and how to price the tickets for a sell out. This guy needs advising fast! England sold out for Fiji!

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the dork says...
9:40am Sat 17 Nov 12

Rob will be kissing Gats on both cheeks when he turns up for next week. We have at least learnt that Rob is a good coach but lacks gravitas for the main job. Who do we need in to guide us for the 6 nations?

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countyno9 says...
1:08pm Sat 17 Nov 12

I see that the posters have conveinently ignored the first post , mentioning rugby unions link to domestic violence ,men attacking women and vice versa , everyone has seen the advert on s4c highlighting this issue when wales play rugby union ,all police leave is cancelled to deal with this issue, last week i had a meeting with homelessness in wales , two days before the Argentina game , the ladies next meeting was with south wales police to deal with the increase in domestic violence because of excessive drinking all in the name of rugby, all this usually witnessed by children , enough said i think ,i dont expect any replys as the saying goes the truth hurts ,and this is rugby unions shame.

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Valleymonkey says...
2:16pm Sat 17 Nov 12

"Only Plan A2" - not even a "Plan A". Absolutely hopeless. How can Wales have gone from WC hopefuls and 6N champions to wooden spooners in 12 months??? Only the WRU could pull that one from the hat - and of course, they will never look at themselves. Still, there's always the Dragons to look forward to...

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signal box says...
3:06pm Sat 17 Nov 12

Bring yet another Welshman back from France (Aled Brew) he has a lot of get up and go and proud of the shirt.
Phillips and Hook to play at 9 & 10.
How about Kingsley Jones as forwards coach

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jimmysmith says...
3:27pm Sat 17 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
I see that the posters have conveinently ignored the first post , mentioning rugby unions link to domestic violence ,men attacking women and vice versa , everyone has seen the advert on s4c highlighting this issue when wales play rugby union ,all police leave is cancelled to deal with this issue, last week i had a meeting with homelessness in wales , two days before the Argentina game , the ladies next meeting was with south wales police to deal with the increase in domestic violence because of excessive drinking all in the name of rugby, all this usually witnessed by children , enough said i think ,i dont expect any replys as the saying goes the truth hurts ,and this is rugby unions shame.
what as domestic violence got to do with the national side losing to samoa you clown. if some thug is going to beat his partner after a few pints ,hes going to do it weather wales win or not ,the rugby is just an excuse to drink .i enjoy a few pints after a game and the last thing on my mind is beating my wife up

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jimmysmith says...
3:27pm Sat 17 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
I see that the posters have conveinently ignored the first post , mentioning rugby unions link to domestic violence ,men attacking women and vice versa , everyone has seen the advert on s4c highlighting this issue when wales play rugby union ,all police leave is cancelled to deal with this issue, last week i had a meeting with homelessness in wales , two days before the Argentina game , the ladies next meeting was with south wales police to deal with the increase in domestic violence because of excessive drinking all in the name of rugby, all this usually witnessed by children , enough said i think ,i dont expect any replys as the saying goes the truth hurts ,and this is rugby unions shame.
what as domestic violence got to do with the national side losing to samoa you clown. if some thug is going to beat his partner after a few pints ,hes going to do it weather wales win or not ,the rugby is just an excuse to drink .i enjoy a few pints after a game and the last thing on my mind is beating my wife up

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jimmysmith says...
3:27pm Sat 17 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
I see that the posters have conveinently ignored the first post , mentioning rugby unions link to domestic violence ,men attacking women and vice versa , everyone has seen the advert on s4c highlighting this issue when wales play rugby union ,all police leave is cancelled to deal with this issue, last week i had a meeting with homelessness in wales , two days before the Argentina game , the ladies next meeting was with south wales police to deal with the increase in domestic violence because of excessive drinking all in the name of rugby, all this usually witnessed by children , enough said i think ,i dont expect any replys as the saying goes the truth hurts ,and this is rugby unions shame.
what as domestic violence got to do with the national side losing to samoa you clown. if some thug is going to beat his partner after a few pints ,hes going to do it weather wales win or not ,the rugby is just an excuse to drink .i enjoy a few pints after a game and the last thing on my mind is beating my wife up

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jimmysmith says...
3:34pm Sat 17 Nov 12

theres only so much blame can be placed on howley , the players had no passion or fight , they took massive hits and were physically played of the park because they was standing over ball at the rucks and mauls and were getting smashed of it . the top and tail of it ,is the welsh didnt want it bad enough and bottled it. as for the small crowds ,who can afford the extortionate prices being charged to watch this rubbish

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Valleymonkey says...
4:20pm Sat 17 Nov 12

I agree with Jimmy "the ball" Smith - he's got my vote right between the uprights.

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countyno9 says...
6:26pm Sat 17 Nov 12

Jimmy Smith you fool read the post properly you fool when Wales play rugby men and women have domestic violence with each other all in the name of the Welsh rugby team winninig or losing the common theme being excessive drinking you fool , all police leave is cancelled to deal with the rugby thugs who drink to much you fool

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Euwan Usami says...
7:03pm Sat 17 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
Jimmy Smith you fool read the post properly you fool when Wales play rugby men and women have domestic violence with each other all in the name of the Welsh rugby team winninig or losing the common theme being excessive drinking you fool , all police leave is cancelled to deal with the rugby thugs who drink to much you fool
In fairness this IS a little off topic. Not all wife beaters watch rugby I am sure . Rugby is not the cause, just idiots and alcohol. If I read a rugby article, domestic violence is not the first thing I think off. Important it maybe,but this is not the forum for it.

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Nptsportsfan says...
10:51pm Sat 17 Nov 12

I've highlighted this before and as usual the rugby crowd who are quick to put the boot in to the problems in football are also quick to ignore this. There is a clear link between rugby internationals and a increase in domestic violence FACT.

I agree Euwan not all wife beaters watch rugby, but its time the whiter than white rugby fans sorted this out because its a disgrace.

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Euwan Usami says...
12:32am Sun 18 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
I've highlighted this before and as usual the rugby crowd who are quick to put the boot in to the problems in football are also quick to ignore this. There is a clear link between rugby internationals and a increase in domestic violence FACT.

I agree Euwan not all wife beaters watch rugby, but its time the whiter than white rugby fans sorted this out because its a disgrace.
Like I said this is an alcohol issue. It's nothing to do with rugby. This is off topic. It's not in the NAME of rugby or anything else for that matter. Every non wife beating rugby fan has the right to be very irritated by your delusion. You obviously have an axe to grind but continually repeating yourself won't change the facts.

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countyno9 says...
7:36am Sun 18 Nov 12

Rugby union has a massive link to domestic violence FACT , its on a Rugby forum and dont all you Rugby supporters wish it wasnt, god help the domestic violence agency this Saturday when Wales get hammered by the All Blacks ,of course you would like the comments to dissapear as the saying goes the truth hurts ,and the truth on this is when Wales play rugby union domestic violence goes through the roof from both sexes all in front of children , yes you are are right in your description of thugs , RUGBY THUGS who have long last been found out ,rugby union and excessive alcohol go cap in hand , excessive drinking in society causes crime ,and these thugs mainly follow rugby for the alcohol intake ,yes i can see your reasoning that you would like this not to appear on a rugby forum ,simple answer stop excessive drinking and the abuse and then there wouldnt be any need to highlight it on here ,rugby union the sport of thugs and domestic violence all caused by to much alcohol FACT ,go away? why sould i not highlight a seriuos sickening rugby problem , doesnt happen at any other sport this breach of domestic violence , so sort it out.

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Euwan Usami says...
9:32am Sun 18 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
Rugby union has a massive link to domestic violence FACT , its on a Rugby forum and dont all you Rugby supporters wish it wasnt, god help the domestic violence agency this Saturday when Wales get hammered by the All Blacks ,of course you would like the comments to dissapear as the saying goes the truth hurts ,and the truth on this is when Wales play rugby union domestic violence goes through the roof from both sexes all in front of children , yes you are are right in your description of thugs , RUGBY THUGS who have long last been found out ,rugby union and excessive alcohol go cap in hand , excessive drinking in society causes crime ,and these thugs mainly follow rugby for the alcohol intake ,yes i can see your reasoning that you would like this not to appear on a rugby forum ,simple answer stop excessive drinking and the abuse and then there wouldnt be any need to highlight it on here ,rugby union the sport of thugs and domestic violence all caused by to much alcohol FACT ,go away? why sould i not highlight a seriuos sickening rugby problem , doesnt happen at any other sport this breach of domestic violence , so sort it out.
Ok so all domestic violence is down to people watching rugby? No just alcohol intake? I don't know who carried out this survey or how anyone has been "found out" as this is not a peado ring we are talking about here after all. Smacks of "All murderers drink tea to me". You think banning tea will end murder? Don't blame true rugby supporters for the actions of a few idiots. Football has always been linked to violence, in rugby it was always kept on the pitch sounds to me like a football supporter trying to make mountains out of molehills.

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countyno9 says...
11:41am Sun 18 Nov 12

Dont you wish i was just a football fan , the domestic violenc advert is on s4c and is based on the excessive drinking of rugby , as for the cowrdice punch in rugby union staying on the pitch thats garbage ,they then go up town in a drunken state and cause trouble with innoccent people who just want a normal night out , this is players and rugby supporters , you only have to be unlucky enough to be in their bad company on a easter rugby tour where they reall excell themselves with their drunken thuggish behaviour ,all rugby boys getting togehter and causing trouble all around the country ,oh forgot its high jinx lol ,if you want to through a punch in the sporting arena get in the boxing ring , you wont because rugby boys like to through the sligh punch ,a punch by the way that is not anywhere in the rules of rugby union ,if the thuggery only stayed within the rugby fraternity and on the pitch the world would be a safer place,PS tune into s4c and see the advert for yourself lol

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Nptsportsfan says...
12:27pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Euwan we seem to be appearing on two threads now. Euwan honestly this has been part of a radio advertising campaign and its specific to big rugby internationals and domestic violence.

A common thread is the response of rugby fans who instead of condemning this are like yourself pretending it doesn't exist. Euwan I like rugby and football, I went to wales France a few years ago and it was the only time i've witnessed a ref call short a minutes silence because people were so drunk they were just shouting out and that was for the mother of a welsh player. Later that year a couple of hundred thousand football fans impeccably respected the minute's silence at the start of each world cup game in respect of Nelson Mandela's granddaughter.

If you care about your sport instead of taking the moral high ground why not research it because its a problem and its damaging the image of the sport you obviously love, pretending it doesn't exist will not solve the problem.

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Dai the Milk says...
12:28pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Can we stay on topic please? What has this got to do with our management of the ball at the breakdown?

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Nptsportsfan says...
1:12pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Dai see the bigger picture this is damaging rugby, not one rugby fan has come on and said bloody hell if this is true then its a disgrace and needs sorting. There is a bigger issue here than what to do with management of play at the breakdown.

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countyno9 says...
4:38pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Rugby get your house in order ,to highlight the excessive drinking that occurs at rugby , which in turn causes domestic violence , yes it,s not on about the game because the priority of the posts are to highlight the common link between rugby union and domestic violence all caused by excessive drinking , which as now got so bad an advert on s4c , i dont care about the breakdown i do care about chidren seeing domestic violence all because of excessive drinking ,i know how to stop it have trial run and ban the drink , the answer would be there would be no domestic violence , of course it has to be posted on a rugby forum how else do you expect rugby to get its house in order otherwise ,belittle the issue thats up to you , but stop ignoring what the excessive drinking is doing ,try going to a game without being excessively drunk and you might even enjoy the day more , common them with rugby union exc essive drinking ,common theme with excessive drinking violence both go cap in hand , so stop the excessive drinking and go for the enjoyment of sport instead of being so drunk most of you cant see the pitch!

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silurix says...
6:38pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Rugby matches do not cause people to drink( Dragons fans excepted at the mo ). Rugby Matches do not cause domestic violence. People at rugby matches sometimes get drunk. Drunken people sometimes assault their partners. If more people than usual get drunk then more assaults than usual will usually take place. As a social issue it should be addressed to those responsible for the licensing laws and also the Brewers. As a personal issue , it should be taken up with those who beat their wives. Unless you know that the members of this forum are brewers , legislators or wife-beaters you are barking up the wrong tree. Making spurious appeals to an abstract entity called "Rugby" achieves what precisely?

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Nptsportsfan says...
6:48pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Silurix you've conveniently missed out the part about there being radio and tv adverts linking the increase in domestic violence directly to welsh rugby internationals.

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Euwan Usami says...
6:48pm Sun 18 Nov 12

silurix wrote:
Rugby matches do not cause people to drink( Dragons fans excepted at the mo ). Rugby Matches do not cause domestic violence. People at rugby matches sometimes get drunk. Drunken people sometimes assault their partners. If more people than usual get drunk then more assaults than usual will usually take place. As a social issue it should be addressed to those responsible for the licensing laws and also the Brewers. As a personal issue , it should be taken up with those who beat their wives. Unless you know that the members of this forum are brewers , legislators or wife-beaters you are barking up the wrong tree. Making spurious appeals to an abstract entity called "Rugby" achieves what precisely?
Amen. And sanity is restored. :)

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Nptsportsfan says...
7:29pm Sun 18 Nov 12

not sanity just totally ignoring the facts.

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silurix says...
7:58pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Depends what "facts" you choose to base your case on. Using S4C or any other media outlet as a primary source does not add a great deal of credibility to your argument IMO. The British media have been mangling statistics and scientific data for decades.
Lets be clear - domestic violence is despicable offence and a serious issue - but linking it specifically to Rugby is frivolous and diverts attention from the real causes. Let me quote another source - the "British Crime Survey" published by the Home Office. They first give a breakdown of incidents by region ( Wales is about average ). Then they
state that the main risk factors for this offence are
1. Living in an inner city.
2. Lack of economic resources ( i.e. poverty ).
Nowhere does it mention any type of sport as a risk factor.

S4C are guilty of the common logic fallacy of confusing an associative link with a causal link ( 'post hoc, ergo propter hoc' in the jargon )

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Nptsportsfan says...
8:31pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Silurix what about a totally independent radio advert that says the same and has nothing to do with s4c.

Sometimes it takes a while for things to be highlighted, people usually start by not acknowledging, it then gradually awareness increases and they realise its true even if they don't like what they're hearing.

This isn't sensationalism and I was really surprised myself when i first heard it on the radio but it is happening and there's a direct link to welsh rugby internationals.

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Nptsportsfan says...
8:32pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Silurix what about a totally independent radio advert that says the same and has nothing to do with s4c.

Sometimes it takes a while for things to be highlighted, people usually start by not acknowledging, it then gradually awareness increases and they realise its true even if they don't like what they're hearing.

This isn't sensationalism and I was really surprised myself when i first heard it on the radio but it is happening and there's a direct link to welsh rugby internationals.

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countyno9 says...
9:21pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Do any rugby supporters ever enter the ground sober and have rugby supporters ever witnessed a game of rugby without alcohol? try watching the game without alcohol for godsake you will actually have a better time.

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CM1 says...
10:28pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Countyno9, you have no interest in those suffering from abuse. Your posts are not borne out of concern for those suffering violence but from a desire to make snide comments about the sport of rugby and its supporters. This is an important topic which you are using for your own tawdry purposes. Drinking increases on international match days and increased drinking leads to increased violence, which is a matter that society should be concerned with.

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Nptsportsfan says...
10:40pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Thank you CM1, this is a serious issue and its no good pretending that its not happening.

My take on it is along the same lines as you, its not that people drink thats the problem, its the fact that these international days are widely regarded as one large session by thousands of people and the problems start later in the day.

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countyno9 says...
6:30am Mon 19 Nov 12

CM1 good point about excessive alcohol being the cause of societys problems , well acknowledged , what happens at Welsh rugby union internationals and all rugby , excessive drinking , i think it is down to the fans as i also have been to many a big cricket game where a big drink is part of an enjoyable day , however there is not a link between the cricket fan who drinks all day at a sporting event and domestic violence and violent crime, my point is thereis a link from excessive drinking at rugby and drunken crime , so get to the cricket and learn how to enjoy a drink without causing crimes against society ,so you see it is the fan involved as cricket and drink prove , i also watch the dragons , great meal in the hospitalty , but why drink so much that you cant see the pitch!

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countyno9 says...
6:41am Mon 19 Nov 12

CM1 good point about excessive alcohol being the cause of societys problems , well acknowledged , what happens at Welsh rugby union internationals and all rugby , excessive drinking , i think it is down to the fans as i also have been to many a big cricket game where a big drink is part of an enjoyable day , however there is not a link between the cricket fan who drinks all day at a sporting event and domestic violence and violent crime, my point is thereis a link from excessive drinking at rugby and drunken crime , so get to the cricket and learn how to enjoy a drink without causing crimes against society ,so you see it is the fan involved as cricket and drink prove , i also watch the dragons , great meal in the hospitalty , but why drink so much that you cant see the pitch!

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Dai the Milk says...
10:08am Mon 19 Nov 12

They drink at cricket games, football games, horse racing and snooker. Have a pop at some of those instead. Drinking is at social problem not a rugby problem. Now go away and spoil someone else's day.

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Nptsportsfan says...
11:10am Mon 19 Nov 12

The point is Dai as conty no9 rightly points out the connection is to rugby and not the other sports. Massive drinking culture in rugby-excessive regular drinking=increase in domestic violence, stop ignoring it and start sorting it.

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Euwan Usami says...
12:34pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
The point is Dai as conty no9 rightly points out the connection is to rugby and not the other sports. Massive drinking culture in rugby-excessive regular drinking=increase in domestic violence, stop ignoring it and start sorting it.
Oh is all Dai's fault? I might have known. Sort it out Dai ffs!! While your at it, next time your in the corner shop, if the guy is a Muslim, get him to sort out the middle east. They have been found out now, I saw something On TV about it. If he looks surprised, tell him to stop ignoring the facts. Lots of trouble in the middle east, most of it involves Muslims FACT. If anyone else sees anything on TV about anything ease feel free to spam the cr@p out of this thread. You wait till they see C4s series on the Nazis.....

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Nptsportsfan says...
12:59pm Mon 19 Nov 12

I didn't blame Dai I made a point. You keep on referring to s4C but I heard it on the radio. Fact of the matter is rugby has a massive drinking culture in it, as is being highlighted this is causing problems on international days-not club rugby days.

I think county no9 also said he was working with homeless and was with their carers the day before the Argentina game, he asked them what they were doung tomorrow-we'll be spending the day with the police to deal with the increase in domestic violence on rugby international day, so thats not from the media. Put your personal pride to one side and recognise the problem.

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countyno9 says...
4:33pm Mon 19 Nov 12

In response to CM1 s" quote i have no interest in suffers of domestic violence and that i am just having a pop at rugby" how wrong you are , rugby as a game is a sport i enjoy and i attend many a dragon game and watch a lot of park rugby , nice change from footy actually , today i have come from a meeting as i am a big charity organiser for disabled children and i work closely with vulnerable youngsters aged between 16 to 25 , todays meeting was with one of the charities and is one of many charities i am meeting with over the coming weeks for Vulnerable youngsters ,the aim of my proposals is to help through sport to team build and give them confidence and a chance to change their lives in a positive way, the sports i put forward were football , boxing , rugby and cricket , the only sport that has been setback is rugby union, not because of the game and the relative agrression release which is positve , but the drinking culture that surrounds rugby union , as they say they are trying to improve youngsters lives not encourage them to drink excessively which will make their lives worse, the other reason is the link between rugby union and domestic violence when wales play an international FACT. my message is rugby as a game is a game i enjoy immenseley , but there is because of drink a strong link to domestic violence when wales play a rugby international , also i think you will find that within the last 2 years the argus has run such stories on rugbys link to domestic violence , when was the article in , end of january i believe just in time for the start of the 6 nations ! coincidence i dont think so.

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DaiFrank says...
5:32pm Mon 19 Nov 12

I thought the most shocking thing at Friday's game was paying £3.75 for half a bottle of Bulmer's cider, served in a plastic bottle at the stadium! Other shocking things besides the game was the poor crowd. As for the comments on domestic violence, I'd think we'd all agree that it should not be tolerated and those who commit it should be prosecuted. I haven't seen the adverts mainly because I don't live in Wales. What are the facts exactly?

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countyno9 says...
6:24pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dai Frank the facts are that when Wales play a rugby international domestic violence hits heights that are not there the week before and are3 not ther the week after , the common link is the excessive consumption of alcohol , forget about the adverts , the fact that i have in recent weeks worked with charities of vulnerable youngsters and domestic violence groups who were before the Argentina game leaving me to meet the police to discuss how many of there support workers they could spare to work alongside the ploice because of the rise in domestic violence when wales play a rugby union , they dont work with police at any other international sporting event as there is not a rise in domestic violence cases so there is no need , as stated i watch a lot of rugby but iv never understood the drinking aspect as i go to sport to watch sport , Samoa took the game to wales , some of it border line illegal but you have to ask yourselves what would South Africa do to us if they cut up rough ,rugby union as a positive release of aggression is top draw , but the drinking aspect im afraid is a massive negative , i played rugby to a good standard i walked away because of the drinking culture and the piggish behaviour that accompanied it ,

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Euwan Usami says...
6:25pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
I didn't blame Dai I made a point. You keep on referring to s4C but I heard it on the radio. Fact of the matter is rugby has a massive drinking culture in it, as is being highlighted this is causing problems on international days-not club rugby days.

I think county no9 also said he was working with homeless and was with their carers the day before the Argentina game, he asked them what they were doung tomorrow-we'll be spending the day with the police to deal with the increase in domestic violence on rugby international day, so thats not from the media. Put your personal pride to one side and recognise the problem.
You know if your carer spots you using his PC again he's gonna give you an awful slap. You wouldn't want to end up like his Mrs would you? Clumsy woman, forever walking into doors this time if year. Crazy coincidence that. Talking of crazy... what do you think?

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countyno9 says...
7:00pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Funny Euwan that you have used the word slap in your post ,are you one of these excessive rugby drinkers? whats your view on womens gruops having to meet with the police before every welsh rugby union international?

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Nptsportsfan says...
7:18pm Mon 19 Nov 12

To be honest Euwan you've lost me on your last post. I've had a good exhange of views with you over the last couple of days and said it as I see it.

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Euwan Usami says...
7:37pm Mon 19 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
Funny Euwan that you have used the word slap in your post ,are you one of these excessive rugby drinkers? whats your view on womens gruops having to meet with the police before every welsh rugby union international?
You know nothing about me or any other person on this thread. If you are genuinely involved with the development of young children then I genuinely fear for them. Up until the last couple of posts your contribution has sounded so infantile I honestly thought you were a kid. What you can possible hope to acheive by spamming forums with this pretty obvious observation I don't know. What you are managing to do is rub everyone up the wrong way with comments like "Sort it out" no to mention the astonishingly infantile way you navigated around the Gareth Thomas homophobic abuse you were more than happy to dish out before performing a screeching u turn, seemingly forgetting the thread you have left behind you. I assume you can't be the full shilling. You are certainly not fit to be telling anyone to sort anything out.

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Euwan Usami says...
7:49pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
To be honest Euwan you've lost me on your last post. I've had a good exhange of views with you over the last couple of days and said it as I see it.
You may think of it like that but it has come across a little demented to say the least. The constant repetition despite the number of times people have tried to point out the failings in the argument along with comments like "Sort it out" apparently randomly directed at people you know nothing about smacks of delusion. I can only conclude you are as misguided as the other one. I really don't see what you hope to acheive, surely you can see the parallels drawn with the Muslim shopkeeper? If not then that's proof positive for me that you need supervision.

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Nptsportsfan says...
8:50pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Firstly the sort it out was meant in general not individually because its happening and needs sorting.

A seperate radio advert, a tv advert and opinions of support workers on the front line-can't see any failing in the argument there.

It took well over 40 posts before somebody actually acknowledged this is a problem.

I haven't read through my posts but am pretty confident I haven't made personal comments re needing supervision etc and kept it general. The truth will out eventually and when it does just remember your stance on this.

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Euwan Usami says...
9:25pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
Firstly the sort it out was meant in general not individually because its happening and needs sorting.

A seperate radio advert, a tv advert and opinions of support workers on the front line-can't see any failing in the argument there.

It took well over 40 posts before somebody actually acknowledged this is a problem.

I haven't read through my posts but am pretty confident I haven't made personal comments re needing supervision etc and kept it general. The truth will out eventually and when it does just remember your stance on this.
It took over 40 posts because it doesn't belong on this forum. Discussions about rugby do.You completely ignored the shopkeeper parallel because it puts all this into context. No one is suggesting domestic violence is a trivial thing. Nor can anyone here do anything to "Sort it out" you are misguided at best if you think that. You are not having a go at "Rugby" on here, your addressing rugby supporters who are not drunk nor interested in being accused directly or indirectly of domestic abuse. What exactly do you hope to acheive with this relentless repetition? .

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Nptsportsfan says...
10:14pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Euwan its an open forum and the subject is related to rugby, it might not be what you want to hear but the radio and tv adverts are specific to rugby as is the views from the support workers.

I don't believe i've once directed my comments individually to anybody on this forum. I've never heard the muslim shopkeeper scenario, but the irony of you picking this up after one response is not lost on me.

I'll let the passage of time sort this one out.

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countyno9 says...
11:09pm Mon 19 Nov 12

So what is the link between rugby union and domestic violence , a story posted by this paper last year ? why would the Argus post a story not based on fact ? i expect the same warning to reported in January just in time for the 6 nations , rugby union get your house in order .go and watch the sport without drink or all rugby fans alcoholics ?

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Euwan Usami says...
11:15pm Mon 19 Nov 12

That's a good idea, let the passage of time sort it out and give it a rest ffs!

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CM1 says...
12:53am Tue 20 Nov 12

Countyno9, do you have proof that such a link does NOT exist in, say, football? Perhaps rugby is the only major sport to have investigated the possibility of a causal link and is actually ahead of other sports. The presence of the advert and press articles is evidence that it is not a subject that is being ignored.

Perhaps you could refrain from the deliberately provocative anti rugby comments, if you do genuinely take this matter seriously, as you claim. Furthermore, if you want to be taken seriously, then you would have some serious catching up to do, after your puerile homophobic comments on another thread,which I am struggling manfully to get past!!

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countyno9 says...
6:09am Tue 20 Nov 12

Wasnt homophobic it was in response to football being called a girls game ,rugby has always been homphobic towards football ,game played by queers, poofter game is that not homophobic , yes or no have the courage to reply honestly to the outdated homophobic view that rugby has had of football or even better deny that these things havent been said, as for the other subject the western mail ,argus and south wales argus have had articles linking welsh rugby internationals to a rise in domestic violence , go into archive you will find the stories if you look hard enough , and only yesterday every sport i put forward was accepted by agencys working with vulnerable teenagers except rugby union ,the reason the excessive drinking culture that surrounds rugby union will not enhance young people who are already struggling , going back to your last point have the courage and reply to my question of why has rugby always since the start of time used footb all as a target for homphobic slurs , people in glass houses shouldnt through stones, i look forward to your reply to my football question ,but heres what your answer should be " yes rugby has always used homphothbic terms to describe football" so please dont deny it , your answer to the football question is something i look forward to, dont dodge it answer the question the question being has rugby used homophobic slurs historically against football.,

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Euwan Usami says...
12:39pm Tue 20 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
Wasnt homophobic it was in response to football being called a girls game ,rugby has always been homphobic towards football ,game played by queers, poofter game is that not homophobic , yes or no have the courage to reply honestly to the outdated homophobic view that rugby has had of football or even better deny that these things havent been said, as for the other subject the western mail ,argus and south wales argus have had articles linking welsh rugby internationals to a rise in domestic violence , go into archive you will find the stories if you look hard enough , and only yesterday every sport i put forward was accepted by agencys working with vulnerable teenagers except rugby union ,the reason the excessive drinking culture that surrounds rugby union will not enhance young people who are already struggling , going back to your last point have the courage and reply to my question of why has rugby always since the start of time used footb all as a target for homphobic slurs , people in glass houses shouldnt through stones, i look forward to your reply to my football question ,but heres what your answer should be " yes rugby has always used homphothbic terms to describe football" so please dont deny it , your answer to the football question is something i look forward to, dont dodge it answer the question the question being has rugby used homophobic slurs historically against football.,
So its all down to you confusing Girls with gays? "Queers" or "Poofters" as you call them and "Girls" are different things, you know that yeah? I pointed that out at the time, just scroll the thread back if your in doubt.

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WARMACHINE says...
1:30pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Perhaps if Gatland selected a few more poofs and wifebeaters Wales would have more of a chance against the All Blackson Saturday.

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Nptsportsfan says...
2:29pm Tue 20 Nov 12

I promised my self i'd stay out of this but Euwan you're too one eyed for me. County no9 was talking generally, it seems rugby fans like to give stick but they certainly can't take it.

I was down tredegar park about 12 months ago watching pill harriers, good game of rugby, one of the players was whinging "shut up if you want to play a poofs game go and play football" don't tell me Euwan this was a one off.

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countyno9 says...
6:11pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Game set and match not one rugby poster has come on and ackowleged rugby historical homphopic jibe against football as a game , Euwan as for saying it,s a girls game yes i would put that down as a homophobic jibe as Newport County are a mens team you know how you meant it stop backtracking , so answer the question what is your view on rugbys historical homophobic, jibes at football , you seem to not want to comment , Euwan i have asked you a direct question ,has rugby had an historical homphbic problem with homophobic jibes at football as a game?just answer yes or no on this question ,remember Euwan not a speech just yes or no is required.

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Euwan Usami says...
7:50pm Tue 20 Nov 12

I don't speak for or represent anyone other than myself. I thought I made myself clear. I can't tell you what other people think.

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countyno9 says...
8:02pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Answer the question asked of you Euwan ,has rugby union historically had a homophobic veiw of football with it,s jibes , not complicated YES or NO.

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silurix says...
8:39pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Just a few points -

1. "Rugby" is doing nothing to promote the campaign against women.

Quote: Wales rugby star Adam Jones will call on men to speak up for women's rights in a campaign being launched at the Welsh assembly. "Violence against women is unacceptable," said Ospreys star Jones.


2. Other sports do not give rise to domestic violence.

Quote: Recent research by Durham University entitled ‘End violence against women’ has highlighted the connection between events such as international football matches and incidents of domestic violence.

Quote: International research suggests violence against women increases by up to 50% during large sporting events.

3. Unique link between "Rugby", drunkenness and domestic violence.

Quote: “Much of this violence is blamed on increased alcohol consumption. But while alcohol can be a contributory factor in a relationship which is already abusive, it is not the root cause. Domestic abuse is an ongoing pattern of abusive behaviour adopted by one partner in an attempt to exert power and control over another.

conclusion:
this is a complex and serious issue which deserves serious attention. It seems that those most able to address the problem and bring about improvements are doing so , though , as with most social problems , its never enough and never on time. The most that the people on this forum can be expected to do is to stop beating their wives - I know I have.

I trust that the 2 ( maybe just one) nuisances masquerading as "concerned" individuals here will try to do something more constructive than feign a genuine interest and wind people up. "They" have nothing to offer to help the cause that they pretend to espouse. The method "they" have chosen to further the cause is so insincere that they are obviously members of that vast horde of sad specimens who plague cyberspace with their gratuitous and irritating little games. CountyNo9 and NptSportsFan - its not too late to grow up. Do us all a favour and make it soon.

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DaiFrank says...
11:52pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Thank you Countyno9 for explaining the relationship between domestic violence and the days when rugby is played. As a rugby fan, and not one as sensitive or defensive as many on here, I can say that this issue requires urgent attention. For too long, perhaps, high levels of alcohol consumption for rugby fans has been seen as acceptable because rugby has been seen as almost violent free, despite the fact that rugby by its nature is violent as a game. Of course violence can be produced by anyone, but it seems that the spotlight is now on rugby, so I agree this needs 'sorting' as you put it or to put it another way it requires investigating further to ascertain the facts and find solutions. Why rugby fans believe that somehow they aren't capable of violence is bizarre. On another note, I'm not a great football fan these days, although I played and watched many years ago, but I wish County all the best and it's great they are playing at RP; history is being made! And, I can say as a rugby fan you're right when you say many rugby fans decry football as being the soft option, when it's not. The great thing about sport in general of course, is that once upon-a-time it was about community and cultural identity and now it's mostly about commercialization. Not all is lost, but whatever sport we follow, it'll be the fans who will hopefully keep it theirs and not business owners who as Frank Zappa once said are 'only in it for the money'. Sadly most sports fans, rugby, football etc., just accept the current commercial affairs uncritically.

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CM1 says...
12:36am Wed 21 Nov 12

Football, rugby and, get this...society, has a homophobic issue to tackle. As I stated previously, you, a) have a massive chip on your shoulder, and/or b) are hijacking serious issues in a tedious attempt to wind up people on this website. Silurix sums up the matter succinctly enough, so that is all from me on this matter.

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countyno9 says...
5:49am Wed 21 Nov 12

dai Frank well said at last someone has got it , Cm1 i agree society has a problem with homophobia ,outdated for sure , common ground then with you football i acknowledge has a homphobic veiw from the terrace , i hate it as i hate racism and look forward to the day that a footballer can be as brave as gareth thomas , so if iv acknowleged footballs terrace outdated problem ,can you at least acknowledge rugbys historical homphobic jibes at football ,believe it or not as a big charity worker i am soon to meet gareth Thomas to see if he can help the kids ,im looking forward to it because he is a great man ,i,l mention this debate im sure he,l get it and who knows perharps domestic violence on the increase when wales play rugby and homphobic views in sport can be debated and improved for all parties ,hope so ,sport can send out a great message against bias so fingers crossed ,il save this debate and show him.

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countyno9 says...
5:49am Wed 21 Nov 12

dai Frank well said at last someone has got it , Cm1 i agree society has a problem with homophobia ,outdated for sure , common ground then with you football i acknowledge has a homphobic veiw from the terrace , i hate it as i hate racism and look forward to the day that a footballer can be as brave as gareth thomas , so if iv acknowleged footballs terrace outdated problem ,can you at least acknowledge rugbys historical homphobic jibes at football ,believe it or not as a big charity worker i am soon to meet gareth Thomas to see if he can help the kids ,im looking forward to it because he is a great man ,i,l mention this debate im sure he,l get it and who knows perharps domestic violence on the increase when wales play rugby and homphobic views in sport can be debated and improved for all parties ,hope so ,sport can send out a great message against bias so fingers crossed ,il save this debate and show him.

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Nptsportsfan says...
9:53am Wed 21 Nov 12

Well its taken nearly 70 posts but we finally got there thank you Dai Frank.
I took this issue seriously but was met with denial time after time. If you check a lot of the replies I think you'll find the personal insults came mainly from the rugby view -me being deluded amongst many things said.
Its great that a top welsh player has spoken out about this subject, if as highlighted by silurix research shows that these instances increase by 50% at general sporting events including football then that is unacceptable.
This was never a football against rugby thing but all the advertising had been specific to rugby. There was then a cross over to the homophobic comments which even the most biased rugby has got to acknowledge has been prevalent from rugby to football. It would seem county no9 is proactive in doing something to help and is not just a wind up merchant which I stress neither am I, as my user name suggests i'm a newport sports fan who attends dragons games and follows the welsh national team.

A point was made I acknowledged it straight away. In the cold light of day when you see beyond the differing views you'll realise a serious issue was being debated here and perhaps in some small way it might just of raised awareness for some people.

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Euwan Usami says...
12:33pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
Well its taken nearly 70 posts but we finally got there thank you Dai Frank.
I took this issue seriously but was met with denial time after time. If you check a lot of the replies I think you'll find the personal insults came mainly from the rugby view -me being deluded amongst many things said.
Its great that a top welsh player has spoken out about this subject, if as highlighted by silurix research shows that these instances increase by 50% at general sporting events including football then that is unacceptable.
This was never a football against rugby thing but all the advertising had been specific to rugby. There was then a cross over to the homophobic comments which even the most biased rugby has got to acknowledge has been prevalent from rugby to football. It would seem county no9 is proactive in doing something to help and is not just a wind up merchant which I stress neither am I, as my user name suggests i'm a newport sports fan who attends dragons games and follows the welsh national team.

A point was made I acknowledged it straight away. In the cold light of day when you see beyond the differing views you'll realise a serious issue was being debated here and perhaps in some small way it might just of raised awareness for some people.
If that's your version of events then you are deluded. You attempted to hijack a debate about the Welsh performance with a point about domestic abuse. In the process of doing this you demanded that people "Sort it out" and despite every attempt to explain to you how inappropriate your comments were you relentlessly spammed the thread. No one would say domestic abuse is a good thing. The point is and has always been that there is a time and place for the discussion. I am truely amazed you cannot see this.

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Euwan Usami says...
1:00pm Wed 21 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
dai Frank well said at last someone has got it , Cm1 i agree society has a problem with homophobia ,outdated for sure , common ground then with you football i acknowledge has a homphobic veiw from the terrace , i hate it as i hate racism and look forward to the day that a footballer can be as brave as gareth thomas , so if iv acknowleged footballs terrace outdated problem ,can you at least acknowledge rugbys historical homphobic jibes at football ,believe it or not as a big charity worker i am soon to meet gareth Thomas to see if he can help the kids ,im looking forward to it because he is a great man ,i,l mention this debate im sure he,l get it and who knows perharps domestic violence on the increase when wales play rugby and homphobic views in sport can be debated and improved for all parties ,hope so ,sport can send out a great message against bias so fingers crossed ,il save this debate and show him.
We can all see the saintly commitment countyno9 has for his crusade against homophobic attitudes. Just to highlight this allow me quote him in the examples below. To be clear, they are all directed at Gareth Thomas.

These can be found under the article heading "Stick with us and the future will be brighter Tony Brown tells us."

"I don't think you can get a bigger girl than Gareth Thomas... Bet he could tell us a few stories from the rugby showers with all the other rugby girls... What's the point of playing out the a so called hard man image on the field then putting on a nice dress and high heels and camping it up when they get home. "

" God I bet he can't wait for the final whistle and to get in with the other so called hard man in the showers lol"

"I actually wouldn't want to say it to his face in case he tried to kiss me lol. "

You will have to let us know what he makes of your comments when you show him.

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Nptsportsfan says...
3:04pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Euwan mine was the first comment. A clear pattern in your replies is you ignore the parts that destroy the myths about rugby eg its all good natured fun and they never pass comments about football. I think your views are unbelievably one eyed. You appear to like dishing out derogatory comments but are unable to handle any back. More fair minded people have debated this and given the views, Silurix did some good research and I immediately acknowledged this was unacceptable in football as well, unlike you Euwan. I didn't spam any thread I stood my ground and eventually we got an acknowledgement that this behaviour is happening on rugby international days. I know Euwan that you will find it hard to accept that what has always been passed off as high jinks becuase its rugby is clearly in some cases anything but. No doubt you will pick and choose what you want from this reply as that has been your pattern so far, what i'm confident of is you won't ackonowledge that this problem exists in the holier than thou sport of rugby.

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Euwan Usami says...
6:32pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
Euwan mine was the first comment. A clear pattern in your replies is you ignore the parts that destroy the myths about rugby eg its all good natured fun and they never pass comments about football. I think your views are unbelievably one eyed. You appear to like dishing out derogatory comments but are unable to handle any back. More fair minded people have debated this and given the views, Silurix did some good research and I immediately acknowledged this was unacceptable in football as well, unlike you Euwan. I didn't spam any thread I stood my ground and eventually we got an acknowledgement that this behaviour is happening on rugby international days. I know Euwan that you will find it hard to accept that what has always been passed off as high jinks becuase its rugby is clearly in some cases anything but. No doubt you will pick and choose what you want from this reply as that has been your pattern so far, what i'm confident of is you won't ackonowledge that this problem exists in the holier than thou sport of rugby.
It's not the first time I have said this but I don't answer for "Rugby" or anyone else for that matter. I am not qualified to answer for other couple or the sport as a whole. I personally do not drink or beat my wife. I have never polled the nation to find out their opinion on the subject so regardless of how many times you ask me I cannot tell you what other people think. No dodging no avoiding, just a fact. I am however very frustrated by the fact you can't see this and somehow believe it's my responsibility to answer for the sport/nation on a thread that has nothing to do with the subject. The mistake you made was to a align yourself with the other guy, this dis not help your cause in my eyes. I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I really don't know if it's true or not but I don't agree with it being debated on this thread . Nor do I agree with orders to "Sort it out" What you have seen is my frustration with this fact and not my personal opinion on the subject. As I keep saying I don't have one as I am not qualified to answer the question.

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countyno9 says...
6:35pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Euwan you can take time to write a long qoute but i have simply asked you for an answer of yes or no on the question has Rugby historically had a homophobic veiw of football with homophobic jibes ie Poofters game , just answer yes or no because you seem to be avoiding the asked question ,i dont need an essay off you just a simple yes or no will suffice!

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Nptsportsfan says...
6:52pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Euwan the difference between me and you is I can acknowledge things. I ducked out of this at one stage as I said i'd let the passage of time sort it out-I only had to wait 24 hours because of research by somebody else.

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Nptsportsfan says...
6:52pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Euwan the difference between me and you is I can acknowledge things. I ducked out of this at one stage as I said i'd let the passage of time sort it out-I only had to wait 24 hours because of research by somebody else.

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Euwan Usami says...
7:22pm Wed 21 Nov 12

countyno9 wrote:
Euwan you can take time to write a long qoute but i have simply asked you for an answer of yes or no on the question has Rugby historically had a homophobic veiw of football with homophobic jibes ie Poofters game , just answer yes or no because you seem to be avoiding the asked question ,i dont need an essay off you just a simple yes or no will suffice!
Sorry you have zero credibility for me.

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Euwan Usami says...
7:36pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Nptsportsfan wrote:
Euwan the difference between me and you is I can acknowledge things. I ducked out of this at one stage as I said i'd let the passage of time sort it out-I only had to wait 24 hours because of research by somebody else.
The main difference between you and I is that I am not prepared to continually repeat myself. If there is one thing I have learnt from this its not to engage with spammers as it only gives them a platform to continue doing it. That's it for me, I leave you with your delusions intact and completely unacknowledged.

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Nptsportsfan says...
7:48pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Euwan its clear I haven't spammed but debated, i've never asked you to repeat yourself, near the the end of the debate others gave fair and good views and its them I respect.

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countyno9 says...
8:38pm Wed 21 Nov 12

Euwan yet again your back on dodging the question , has Rugby historically had an hobophobic veiw of football , answer please yes or no.

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