Make us equal

IF SCOTLAND votes Yes that’s the end of the British state. If they vote No, they could end up with devolution-max, with only defence and foreign affairs reserved here to Westminster.

Are you seriously saying that the people of Wales are going to be content with a settlement that doesn’t even take us up to where Scotland is now?

Andrew Nutt Heolddu Road Bargoed

Comments (20)

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3:00pm Fri 2 May 14

Walter Devereux says...

Yes. Take any random geographical part of the British Isles and apply that scenario. It is ludicrous to suggest that all parts need to be governed in the same way with their difference circumstances.
Yes. Take any random geographical part of the British Isles and apply that scenario. It is ludicrous to suggest that all parts need to be governed in the same way with their difference circumstances. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 11

8:43pm Fri 2 May 14

Monmouthshire Merlin says...

Devolution has been a disaster for wales. NHS, education, social services, have all declined under Plaid & Labour.
Sadly, I have to say we were better managed by a small team at the Welsh Office, rather than the vast bureaucracy that has been established in Cardiff bay. The waste is scandalous, in particular, the vast amount of money wasted on propping up a language that has no economic value. I do accept it should be maintained for its cultural importance, but it is not worthy of the amount of vast amounts of money spent at the expense of the services I have mentioned.
Devolution has been a disaster for wales. NHS, education, social services, have all declined under Plaid & Labour. Sadly, I have to say we were better managed by a small team at the Welsh Office, rather than the vast bureaucracy that has been established in Cardiff bay. The waste is scandalous, in particular, the vast amount of money wasted on propping up a language that has no economic value. I do accept it should be maintained for its cultural importance, but it is not worthy of the amount of vast amounts of money spent at the expense of the services I have mentioned. Monmouthshire Merlin
  • Score: 13

8:43pm Sat 3 May 14

scraptheWAG says...

Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Devolution has been a disaster for wales. NHS, education, social services, have all declined under Plaid & Labour.
Sadly, I have to say we were better managed by a small team at the Welsh Office, rather than the vast bureaucracy that has been established in Cardiff bay. The waste is scandalous, in particular, the vast amount of money wasted on propping up a language that has no economic value. I do accept it should be maintained for its cultural importance, but it is not worthy of the amount of vast amounts of money spent at the expense of the services I have mentioned.
absolutely spot on with everything my friend , but you will always get those like merv who say its better to have a welsh person do a bad job than a english a mediocre one
[quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: Devolution has been a disaster for wales. NHS, education, social services, have all declined under Plaid & Labour. Sadly, I have to say we were better managed by a small team at the Welsh Office, rather than the vast bureaucracy that has been established in Cardiff bay. The waste is scandalous, in particular, the vast amount of money wasted on propping up a language that has no economic value. I do accept it should be maintained for its cultural importance, but it is not worthy of the amount of vast amounts of money spent at the expense of the services I have mentioned.[/p][/quote]absolutely spot on with everything my friend , but you will always get those like merv who say its better to have a welsh person do a bad job than a english a mediocre one scraptheWAG
  • Score: 9

11:54am Sun 4 May 14

Mervyn James says...

True....
True.... Mervyn James
  • Score: -9

1:34pm Sun 4 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
True....
Which I guess tells you everything you need to know about why Wales is in the state it's in.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: True....[/p][/quote]Which I guess tells you everything you need to know about why Wales is in the state it's in. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 10

10:03am Mon 5 May 14

scraptheWAG says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
True....
Which I guess tells you everything you need to know about why Wales is in the state it's in.
yes unfortunately Merv is not alone in listening to the rantings of wind bag jones I sometimes think the less educated in wales are so brainwashed labour could burn there house down steal their car and yes in the morning they would still vote labour.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: True....[/p][/quote]Which I guess tells you everything you need to know about why Wales is in the state it's in.[/p][/quote]yes unfortunately Merv is not alone in listening to the rantings of wind bag jones I sometimes think the less educated in wales are so brainwashed labour could burn there house down steal their car and yes in the morning they would still vote labour. scraptheWAG
  • Score: 10

1:29pm Mon 5 May 14

Crossbenchtory says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
True....
Which I guess tells you everything you need to know about why Wales is in the state it's in.
yes unfortunately Merv is not alone in listening to the rantings of wind bag jones I sometimes think the less educated in wales are so brainwashed labour could burn there house down steal their car and yes in the morning they would still vote labour.
I have long believed that, were she still alive, Baroness Thatcher could stand in The Rhondda and win, if she wore a Labour rosette, such is the mindless, lemming like voting habits of the average Welsh voter.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: True....[/p][/quote]Which I guess tells you everything you need to know about why Wales is in the state it's in.[/p][/quote]yes unfortunately Merv is not alone in listening to the rantings of wind bag jones I sometimes think the less educated in wales are so brainwashed labour could burn there house down steal their car and yes in the morning they would still vote labour.[/p][/quote]I have long believed that, were she still alive, Baroness Thatcher could stand in The Rhondda and win, if she wore a Labour rosette, such is the mindless, lemming like voting habits of the average Welsh voter. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 12

7:03pm Mon 5 May 14

Mervyn James says...

Vote Tory, then the 'people' have spoken. Like everyone else I assume to be living in a democracy and will have to agree with the majority. Who says I vote Labour anyway ?
Vote Tory, then the 'people' have spoken. Like everyone else I assume to be living in a democracy and will have to agree with the majority. Who says I vote Labour anyway ? Mervyn James
  • Score: -3

10:28am Tue 6 May 14

pwlldu says...

The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.
The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour. pwlldu
  • Score: -4

9:48pm Tue 6 May 14

Monmouthshire Merlin says...

pwlldu wrote:
The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.
You are wrong again Mr Nutt. The assembly is to blame. It's mere existence has cost the people of Wales dearly. Billions wasted on bureaucracy, instead of Education, NHS, Social Services.
Tell me what the assembly has given the people of Wales that we didn't have under the Welsh Office???
The assembly is an excuse for jobs for the boys and the boyo nationalists!
It will be very interesting to say what Wales says in the forthcoming european elections. Good bye Plaid or you may prefer Hwyl Fawr Plaid!
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.[/p][/quote]You are wrong again Mr Nutt. The assembly is to blame. It's mere existence has cost the people of Wales dearly. Billions wasted on bureaucracy, instead of Education, NHS, Social Services. Tell me what the assembly has given the people of Wales that we didn't have under the Welsh Office??? The assembly is an excuse for jobs for the boys and the boyo nationalists! It will be very interesting to say what Wales says in the forthcoming european elections. Good bye Plaid or you may prefer Hwyl Fawr Plaid! Monmouthshire Merlin
  • Score: 5

10:39am Wed 7 May 14

pwlldu says...

Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales. pwlldu
  • Score: -6

11:10am Wed 7 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 7

5:54pm Wed 7 May 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.
You are wrong again Mr Nutt. The assembly is to blame. It's mere existence has cost the people of Wales dearly. Billions wasted on bureaucracy, instead of Education, NHS, Social Services.
Tell me what the assembly has given the people of Wales that we didn't have under the Welsh Office???
The assembly is an excuse for jobs for the boys and the boyo nationalists!
It will be very interesting to say what Wales says in the forthcoming european elections. Good bye Plaid or you may prefer Hwyl Fawr Plaid!
Billions on bureaucracy? Really, or a spot of hyperbole? I'm going for the latter, especially given Welsh Government received a total of £14.528bn in 2012-13 to operate all devolved services.

As for jobs for the 'boyos' and 'Welsh nationalists', the employee base is much like any other in south Wales. Broadly young, multicultural and with only a marked minority who conduct themselves in Welsh.

Your 'facts' are as mythical as your soubriquet.
[quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.[/p][/quote]You are wrong again Mr Nutt. The assembly is to blame. It's mere existence has cost the people of Wales dearly. Billions wasted on bureaucracy, instead of Education, NHS, Social Services. Tell me what the assembly has given the people of Wales that we didn't have under the Welsh Office??? The assembly is an excuse for jobs for the boys and the boyo nationalists! It will be very interesting to say what Wales says in the forthcoming european elections. Good bye Plaid or you may prefer Hwyl Fawr Plaid![/p][/quote]Billions on bureaucracy? Really, or a spot of hyperbole? I'm going for the latter, especially given Welsh Government received a total of £14.528bn in 2012-13 to operate all devolved services. As for jobs for the 'boyos' and 'Welsh nationalists', the employee base is much like any other in south Wales. Broadly young, multicultural and with only a marked minority who conduct themselves in Welsh. Your 'facts' are as mythical as your soubriquet. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -7

5:59pm Wed 7 May 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.
Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques.

And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.[/p][/quote]Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques. And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -5

6:46am Thu 8 May 14

Monmouthshire Merlin says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.
You are wrong again Mr Nutt. The assembly is to blame. It's mere existence has cost the people of Wales dearly. Billions wasted on bureaucracy, instead of Education, NHS, Social Services.
Tell me what the assembly has given the people of Wales that we didn't have under the Welsh Office???
The assembly is an excuse for jobs for the boys and the boyo nationalists!
It will be very interesting to say what Wales says in the forthcoming european elections. Good bye Plaid or you may prefer Hwyl Fawr Plaid!
Billions on bureaucracy? Really, or a spot of hyperbole? I'm going for the latter, especially given Welsh Government received a total of £14.528bn in 2012-13 to operate all devolved services.

As for jobs for the 'boyos' and 'Welsh nationalists', the employee base is much like any other in south Wales. Broadly young, multicultural and with only a marked minority who conduct themselves in Welsh.

Your 'facts' are as mythical as your soubriquet.
Just to assist your ignorance. The Monmouthshire Merlin was the Argus of its day. For your help and education it reported the Chartist Insurrection.
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: The Welsh assembly is not to blame but the party in charge. Nobody blames the westminster but the party in government be it Tory or Labour.[/p][/quote]You are wrong again Mr Nutt. The assembly is to blame. It's mere existence has cost the people of Wales dearly. Billions wasted on bureaucracy, instead of Education, NHS, Social Services. Tell me what the assembly has given the people of Wales that we didn't have under the Welsh Office??? The assembly is an excuse for jobs for the boys and the boyo nationalists! It will be very interesting to say what Wales says in the forthcoming european elections. Good bye Plaid or you may prefer Hwyl Fawr Plaid![/p][/quote]Billions on bureaucracy? Really, or a spot of hyperbole? I'm going for the latter, especially given Welsh Government received a total of £14.528bn in 2012-13 to operate all devolved services. As for jobs for the 'boyos' and 'Welsh nationalists', the employee base is much like any other in south Wales. Broadly young, multicultural and with only a marked minority who conduct themselves in Welsh. Your 'facts' are as mythical as your soubriquet.[/p][/quote]Just to assist your ignorance. The Monmouthshire Merlin was the Argus of its day. For your help and education it reported the Chartist Insurrection. Monmouthshire Merlin
  • Score: 6

8:35am Thu 8 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.
Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques.

And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.
Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.[/p][/quote]Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques. And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.[/p][/quote]Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 6

1:26am Fri 9 May 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.
Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques.

And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.
Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.
Costs billions in the sense that the operation of services in Wales cost billions when retained by the UK Government, pre-devolution.

My sincere apologies (pithy) for the paucity of my knowledge when it comes to mid 19th century newspapers.

I will however offer up an actual apology for my comment on your riposte to the earlier statement on the 'unelected Welsh office' civil servants... Rushed in there somewhat.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.[/p][/quote]Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques. And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.[/p][/quote]Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.[/p][/quote]Costs billions in the sense that the operation of services in Wales cost billions when retained by the UK Government, pre-devolution. My sincere apologies (pithy) for the paucity of my knowledge when it comes to mid 19th century newspapers. I will however offer up an actual apology for my comment on your riposte to the earlier statement on the 'unelected Welsh office' civil servants... Rushed in there somewhat. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -1

8:38am Fri 9 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.
Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques.

And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.
Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.
Costs billions in the sense that the operation of services in Wales cost billions when retained by the UK Government, pre-devolution.

My sincere apologies (pithy) for the paucity of my knowledge when it comes to mid 19th century newspapers.

I will however offer up an actual apology for my comment on your riposte to the earlier statement on the 'unelected Welsh office' civil servants... Rushed in there somewhat.
Apology accepted. So for clarity, is it your sincere belief that the administrative costs for Wales have not increased exponentially since the WAG took over here? If it is I think you'll find its a minority view. Government departments (including Westminster) have never been good at managing costs. They get paid other people's money to spend other people's money. I doubt many think that Wales cost £700m pa just to run pre-WAG. And nothing here has improved, indeed it has got worse.
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.[/p][/quote]Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques. And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.[/p][/quote]Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.[/p][/quote]Costs billions in the sense that the operation of services in Wales cost billions when retained by the UK Government, pre-devolution. My sincere apologies (pithy) for the paucity of my knowledge when it comes to mid 19th century newspapers. I will however offer up an actual apology for my comment on your riposte to the earlier statement on the 'unelected Welsh office' civil servants... Rushed in there somewhat.[/p][/quote]Apology accepted. So for clarity, is it your sincere belief that the administrative costs for Wales have not increased exponentially since the WAG took over here? If it is I think you'll find its a minority view. Government departments (including Westminster) have never been good at managing costs. They get paid other people's money to spend other people's money. I doubt many think that Wales cost £700m pa just to run pre-WAG. And nothing here has improved, indeed it has got worse. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 3

10:48am Fri 9 May 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.
What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.
Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques.

And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.
Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.
Costs billions in the sense that the operation of services in Wales cost billions when retained by the UK Government, pre-devolution.

My sincere apologies (pithy) for the paucity of my knowledge when it comes to mid 19th century newspapers.

I will however offer up an actual apology for my comment on your riposte to the earlier statement on the 'unelected Welsh office' civil servants... Rushed in there somewhat.
Apology accepted. So for clarity, is it your sincere belief that the administrative costs for Wales have not increased exponentially since the WAG took over here? If it is I think you'll find its a minority view. Government departments (including Westminster) have never been good at managing costs. They get paid other people's money to spend other people's money. I doubt many think that Wales cost £700m pa just to run pre-WAG. And nothing here has improved, indeed it has got worse.
Costs have most certainly increased, but that is because Wales is finally taking control of its own affairs, and introducing Wales-specific legislation for which is it is exclusively accountable for and responsible for scrutinising.

I'm no apologist for the WG, but I can assure you that a great many things HAVE improved - and you'll have difficulty believing this - in terms of NHS patient satisfaction data, and rights and entitlements in certain health services that go beyond anything being driven forward in mainland Europe (including the rest of the UK).

The major difficulty is not necessarily the cost of operating WG, but rather Wales' 22 unitary authorities of which there are far too many. Far-reaching structural changes to the ways in which health and social care services interact are required which will take some time. One step change which would reduce cost, increase accountability and expediting more effective partnership working would be to reduce the number of local authorities so as to be coterminous / amalgamate with Wales' 7 LHBs.

Lastly, and while I think there are institutional and governance issues that will continue to plague us (the calibre of AM is pretty poor, for example) we cannot forget just how mercilessly shafted Wales has been, funding-wise, under the Barnett formula. Until we receive a settlement based on need rather than population we'll continue to falter. Put it this way - and the data bears this out - if a pot of change was made available by HM Treasury for England and Wales, divided amongst the 'regions', of which Wales is one, 'we' would receive approximately 5.85% whereas the north-east of England, an area with comparable population, health / disease burden and socio-economic profile, would receive anything between 11.5 and 14%. Perverse, yes?

This is not to say I agree with everything successive WG Governments have done - far from it, the monies spent on the Senedd were a disgrace, and very very few civil servants actually work there - but, at the risk of sounding like Woodward or Bernstein, I have to be careful what I say.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Monmouthshire Merlin says... JohnReadwood the the welsh sec returned millions of unspent NHS money back to London without a second thought. The welsh office were a bunch of unelected civil servants and its boss was an unaccountable MP who couldn't get voted out by the people of Wales. Both Labour and Tory parties are still puppets to their payroll masters in London. Who is to say that if Wales voted yes in 1979 Wales wounldn't faced pits closing. Some element of the Labour party still want the Welsh aeembly not to be sucessfull. English based parties have the wrong policies for Wales.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? The civil servants in the WAG are now ten times in number and just as 'unelected'. The Welsh Assembly will never succeed whoever runs it because it's a totally flawed construct. No problem was ever solved by creating more politicians and cvil servants. Or haven't you noticed. It just costs ten times as much.[/p][/quote]Do you in any way, shape or form understand how government operates? How governance is assured? How scrutiny takes place? How the democratic process is managed? You seem to think its a case of getting a few bods in the room to write cheques. And no civil servant is elected. To do so would be to undermine one of the hallmarks of constitutional democracy i.e. the political independence of the civil service as a counterpoint to the very much political elected Government.[/p][/quote]Given that you seem to be having trouble reading, I'll point out that my comment on the civil servants being 'unelected' was a reply to the post I was answering, I.e unelected civil servants at the Welsh Office. The fact remains that WAG has cost £billions since it's inception and yet no-one has yet articulated a single tangible benefit for that obscene outlay. And neither have you.[/p][/quote]Costs billions in the sense that the operation of services in Wales cost billions when retained by the UK Government, pre-devolution. My sincere apologies (pithy) for the paucity of my knowledge when it comes to mid 19th century newspapers. I will however offer up an actual apology for my comment on your riposte to the earlier statement on the 'unelected Welsh office' civil servants... Rushed in there somewhat.[/p][/quote]Apology accepted. So for clarity, is it your sincere belief that the administrative costs for Wales have not increased exponentially since the WAG took over here? If it is I think you'll find its a minority view. Government departments (including Westminster) have never been good at managing costs. They get paid other people's money to spend other people's money. I doubt many think that Wales cost £700m pa just to run pre-WAG. And nothing here has improved, indeed it has got worse.[/p][/quote]Costs have most certainly increased, but that is because Wales is finally taking control of its own affairs, and introducing Wales-specific legislation for which is it is exclusively accountable for and responsible for scrutinising. I'm no apologist for the WG, but I can assure you that a great many things HAVE improved - and you'll have difficulty believing this - in terms of NHS patient satisfaction data, and rights and entitlements in certain health services that go beyond anything being driven forward in mainland Europe (including the rest of the UK). The major difficulty is not necessarily the cost of operating WG, but rather Wales' 22 unitary authorities of which there are far too many. Far-reaching structural changes to the ways in which health and social care services interact are required which will take some time. One step change which would reduce cost, increase accountability and expediting more effective partnership working would be to reduce the number of local authorities so as to be coterminous / amalgamate with Wales' 7 LHBs. Lastly, and while I think there are institutional and governance issues that will continue to plague us (the calibre of AM is pretty poor, for example) we cannot forget just how mercilessly shafted Wales has been, funding-wise, under the Barnett formula. Until we receive a settlement based on need rather than population we'll continue to falter. Put it this way - and the data bears this out - if a pot of change was made available by HM Treasury for England and Wales, divided amongst the 'regions', of which Wales is one, 'we' would receive approximately 5.85% whereas the north-east of England, an area with comparable population, health / disease burden and socio-economic profile, would receive anything between 11.5 and 14%. Perverse, yes? This is not to say I agree with everything successive WG Governments have done - far from it, the monies spent on the Senedd were a disgrace, and very very few civil servants actually work there - but, at the risk of sounding like Woodward or Bernstein, I have to be careful what I say. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -2

10:38pm Sat 10 May 14

pwlldu says...

People of Wales voted for the Welsh Assembly. Wales never voted for the Tories to form a Welsh government. Sadly they voted Labour. How many Tory MP's are there out of 40 MP's in Wales. We should vote to get rid of the London government.
People of Wales voted for the Welsh Assembly. Wales never voted for the Tories to form a Welsh government. Sadly they voted Labour. How many Tory MP's are there out of 40 MP's in Wales. We should vote to get rid of the London government. pwlldu
  • Score: -1

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